Brewery to follow through with threat after seeing growler on eBay
You have seen your very last growler of “Exponential Hoppiness” ever to be dispensed. Since I previously stated if I ever saw a growler of “Exponential Hoppiness” for sale on ebay there would never be another growler sold again. Don’t blame me, but you can see who to blame on this link. As for bottles of “Expo” on ebay, I’m seriously considering never bottling it again. This is not just a personal issue, it’s illegal. The fact that people drove down from LA to make a quick buck and denying the locals the chance to buy some is also just plain wrong.
via Alpine Beer Co. newsletter.
Breweries: Alpine Beer Co.
This seems a little extreme!
-T
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POW thats the sound of someone shooting themselves in the foot!
I fully support this. eBay thieves, vile scum.
Good move, IMO.
Stuff like Expo, PtY, Citra, etc. should be draft only, no growlers.
I LULD IRL.
I’m confused…. what? someone bought beer and then sold it? I can see how it may be illegal, but what’s the big deal?? oh boo who, I’m a beer brewer, i need more he-brews, and less boo whos….
Good on ya Alpine – they’ve been the ultimate local brewery from the start, never compromising for profit or fame. More breweries should embrace this approach and cut out the black market.
The brewer has every right to follow through with his threat. That said, he also chose to offer the beer in growlers..knowing that those growlers were going to go out into the world. The buyer has every right to drink, drain pour or sell what he has purchased on eBay. You are not going to solve this problem by bitching about it. It is a free market. If you don’t want it on eBay, offer it on draft only. Crying about it just looks bad. If shooting the eBay seller a nasty email makes you feel better, go for it. But it’s not going to fix anything.
I LOVE it!
Nothing’s more unsatisfying than just a bunch of complaining about eBay sales, empty threats, and not seeing a promise all the way through. Kudos to Alpine for taking a stand. Would love to see his reaction be repeated by other breweries, but I won’t hold my breath.
(Adam, I trust you’ll stay on top of this to see if he’s good to his word)
I guess thats one brewery that i won’t support. Stop your bitchin and make beer for the people to enjoy. When you start trying to control the market, the market will control you. If my craft beer club sends me some Alpine Beer Co. beer, I think I’ll oblige the beer nazi and pour it out. Sounds like he doesnt want anyone to enjoy his beer unless they come to the brewery. Sure is alot of breweries around to choose from that actually want peoploe to enjoy their libations.
Good for him, sucks for any beer lover who has to drive home from Alpine. Growlers in general as well as bottled beer are really the only option for folks who don’t want to drink and drive. As for the leaches who buy beer purely for resale and quick bucks, you suck. You are the reason craft beer pricing is going through the roof and limited releases are nearly impossible to aquire anymore. Pure greed..Get a real job.
Agree – the whole buying/selling thing on ebay is ridiculous (just looked at the link there are a dozen or so just for bottles of Expo Hoppiness!). Wow – every brewery and their brother makes a decent IPA or double IPA (for a fraction of the cost) – just drink local folks!! For those who perpetuate this phenomenon by trying to ‘tick’ every beer in existence or those who take advantage of the system and try to turn beer into a ‘wine-like’ commodity – please leave the beer community. You do more harm than good.
Maybe limited releases should become less limited. Some of us are family people and can only get in a nightcap when the kids are asleep. We can’t go to bars much if at all. Draft only ruins it for folks like us.
If you are worried about the black market, eliminate it by increasing supply
There’s better ways around this so not to make the rest of us suffer. Come on Pat. Let’s talk this through. Please.
….and furthermore. What makes you think that you have omnipotent control over something even after you’ve sold it to the public. You’re mad because someone made a profit on your product. What in the hell do you think the distributors do, sell your product for a lose? I think not.
While I am sad this has happened. He warned people that this would happen. Beer clubs, bottle trades, are a big difference than selling a beer on EBAY at triple the value, It also compromises the freshness and quality of the beer…I know a certain brewery that found out their beers were being traded to the west coast and resold in store before distribution reached CA. They were mad at first but once they found out that there was no mark up on the beers they were ok with it. They didn’t want to get a bad reputation of being an expensive brewery. Maybe one day if Alpine expands (and they intend to) Expo will be released to a bigger distribution. I remember last august I got 4 growler fills of Expo in the week that they had it…This year because of these people that used a lot of bottle and growler purchase for trade and resale It sold out in 3.5 hours. Nonsense! Keep it local and for the regular customers that will enjoy it. Maybe something like the bruery does where only RS members can purchase certain growlers, or like Lost Abbey is doing with the track releases on site consumption only for the bottles.
“While I am sad this has happened. He warned people that this would happen. Beer clubs, bottle trades, are a big difference than selling a beer on EBAY at triple the value, It also compromises the freshness and quality of the beer…”
Shipping beer across the country via trade doesn’t?
“I know a certain brewery that found out their beers were being traded to the west coast and resold in store before distribution reached CA. They were mad at first but once they found out that there was no mark up on the beers they were ok with it. They didn’t want to get a bad reputation of being an expensive brewery. Maybe one day if Alpine expands (and they intend to) Expo will be released to a bigger distribution.”
As of last year, he doesn’t plan to expand any further than Arizona, if Arizona at all.
Boo hoo. Somebody thinks so much of your beer that they are willing to pay a premium for it…I’m sick of brewers like this one and others acting like kids and pouting over the fact that people that can’t easily access their stuff are paying for it on eBay and such. You should be happy. Who cares if the guy made a profit. If it was available all the time you wouldn’t have to worry about stuff like this.
Yes you are right Adam I should of clarified I meant shipping Growlers across country. Bottle trades are different in that the two people in the trades are more than likely genuine craft beer lovers and I hope are doing it for their own consumption. They are also usually doing it with a local beer for a local beer. They are not tripling the price of selling the beer as per people on Ebay. I didn’t know how far they planned on expanding. That is too bad but I’m sure there is a reason behind that. Their brewery as of now is quite small and production can not handle distribution outside of the SD area.
Every person has a different philosophy on running a business. Pat’s is stay small, stay local(-ish).
As with anything, you have to look at it on a case-by-case basis. With eBay, you do have people that set a buy it now of $$$. I’d rather they just let the market determine the price but whatever. With traders, you have those who love beer and want to share it as a hobby. And you have others who hold their beer until offered a market-like value in the form of other beer to their liking which isn’t all that much different from the motive of the eBay re-seller when you think about it.
It’s a free market society. Why should any company (other than a publisher of music, writing or cinema) be able to dictate what you can or can’t do with a product that you purchased?
The gentleman from Alpine certainly has a right to say if X happens, I’ll do Y – that’s his choice. Perhaps he should instead a) raise his price to capture that profit on his own b) take it a s compliment c) brew more beer d) find bigger fish to fry!
Or perhaps the listing on eBay is his shill listing and all of this is for PR and attention!
@Anthony the value is what someone is willing to pay for it NOT necessarily what the item was originally listed or sold for.
Very true, sad but it is like this in every industry IE Coachella, sporting events, ect. It is part peoples greed and I feel part the economy and people trying to make money.
Yea. Now there’s a good business decision. Let your ego get in the way of satisfying your customers. Seriously…look at this from an overall perspective…the only person that “wins” from this decision is your ego. Not your customers and supporters. In fact, you’ve clearly made more enemies put of loyal customera with this decision. You should be thanking your customers every day for buying your product.
Consider the opposite situation where you brew a bunch of beer that nobody wants to drink. Not that I support someone illegally reselling your beer for profit but get over yourself. At least someone wants to buy it.
Cry baby
I don’t think it’s greed – it’s human nature. It’s making a living to take care of your or your family.
Remember this – there are a lot of people who have more money than time. Whether they be doctors, lawyers or whatever. Beer, tickets or widgets that are in limited supply – they’re working and don’t have the ability or chance to purchase the beer, tickets or widgets. But hey they make a good living – should they be locked out of being able to buy something from another consenting adults (as long as transaction is within the law) for whatever price they’re willing to pay? I say this as ax EX- TICKET BROKER. I’ve been called lots of things – mostly good things – yes I made a great living and I provided a product that I stood behind with a great service and a guarantee – my customers paid as much for that as they did for the actual tickets.
Okay, first I want to know how is this illegal? If you bought it, you can sell it, piss in it, throw it away; that’s not for Alpine to decide once they have sold it.
Secondly, it’s not fair to punish many customers when only a handful have done this. I understand them being upset and rightfully so, but don’t take it out like this.
I certainly agree with the guy being angry and all, but he seems to be acting like a child in the way he is choosing to deal with it. I believe a much better solution would be to make someone purchasing a growler sign a waiver saying they aren’t allowed to resell it. Of course that’s only one solution to this, but the point is that there is a more mature way of handling this than just saying well I won’t sell growlers or bottle beer anymore.
Regardless, this is obviously a hot topic and with so many opinions who is to say what’s right? It’s all a matter of perspective.
I do not understand why anyone would criticize a man for standing up for what he believes in. We have enough people within the beer community who are all talk and simply like to complain, it is refreshing to see someone take action.
People often bring up the fact that trading is no different than selling on Ebay, the end result is still the same. That is a bit of a broad statement which would be more appropriate if it were more specific. Ebay is more of a blatant form and therefor gets more attention. Profiteering, be it trading or selling, does not benefit the greater beer community. It may benefit one but does not benefit all.
The amount of entitlement displayed here is ridiculous. Why should people across the country be upset by this move? Just because a beer is made it does not mean to deserve to have access to it. Stop worrying about what you can’t drink and enjoy what you can. Sometimes it feels like people like to complain about beer more than drinking it.
‘Kevin’ above me has it absolutely nailed.
Anyone who doesn’t agree with Alpine on this is absolutely clueless, about life in general. The guy is running his business how he sees fit. You’re not *entitled* to one ounce of beer from him or his brewery. COULD it potentially hurt him/Alpine sales? Absolutely. You have every right to boycott his product based on his business practices. Stop crying and find another world-class IPA… especially on the friggin’ west coast!! You babies out there are such a joke.
Fully support your decision. Let these ass clowns make their money legally some other way.
It’s illegal because you have to have licenses to sell beer. It would suck if just anybody could sell beer without a license. The stuff has to be regulated. If it’s not, who’s to stop somebody from filling up homebrew IPA and claiming its Pliny?
Jonathan McBride: How is it illegal? Because you need a license to sell alcohol, it is as simple as that. Why do you think the eBay listings say stuff like “This auction is for the collectible bottle, not the contents” etc.?
Adam Nason: “Shipping beer across the country via trade doesn’t?”
Are you honestly saying that shipping through a licensed distributor of beverages, using refridgerated trucks and ending up at a point-of-sale where buyers can feel confident that the beverage is untainted, is no different than some unknown dude keeping a bottle in unknown temperatures/conditions for a prolonged time, and then shipping it through FedEx?!
Can you really judge anyone, given the raging masses reviewing beers online and being vocal about their subjective experiences, for not wanting this to happen to their product?
There are a lot of people who have severe entitlement issues around here, it is not the free market, it is people turning a quick profit through illegal, online alcohol sales. Simple as that.
Kim when I say “via trade” I mean “via a trade made for beer with another individual.” Two people boxing up beer and shipping to each other through UPS or FedEx.
Called Ebay and they were glad to remove any of this stuff it’s illegal to them also….Sign in to Ebay goto customer support/account/someone is using my account. You will recieve a phone number and pin to call you must report the actual action and user name but once a user has been reported they will check there whole account for fraudulent sales…
The owner has every right to do what he wants. I have and would trade for beers, but I will never pay outrageous prices to some of these clowns trying to make a few dollars. Granted it would only be an inconvenience, but he should report all the sellers to eBay. Selling alcohol is banned. Let them show pictures of a bottle without a cap and stating it is an empty bottle they are bidding for. See how much they get then!
There is more to this than a brewer wanting to make the money off of the beer sold. Consider this example of the last time Pliny the Younger was sold in growlers.
People waited in line all day to get a taste of this beer. Those who got in early for growlers they planned to sell, filled their growlers, then left, put the growlers in their car (and February in Santa Rosa is not cold) and went back in the pub to continue drinking. The growlers were then subjected to the conditions of a hot car before being driven wherever they were going. There was no guarantee the growlers were then put in a fridge, likely left in the case they were transported in and left at room temperature for the duration of the auction. Looking to maximize profit, the beer was sent via ground shipping, adding another week of less than ideal conditions.
At arrival, a thirsty consumer probably opened a flat, skunked growler, cursed the name of Russian River and was left utterly disappointed. The brewery and the beer will forever bring up bad thoughts from this person who spent triple digits on a half gallon of old beer.
eBay growler sales do nothing but hurt the reputation of the brewery while victimizing beer drinkers. These aren’t counter pressure filled. They usually aren’t kept cold. They have a limited shelf life and when someone pays a premium they expect the best, not sub-standard.
This is like auctioning off moldy bread to hungry people. It’s wrong. It’s illegal. Good job Alpine.
My only disappointment is that now I won’t be able to drink this beer without visiting SD or Alpine directly. As long as they supplement the lack of bottles and growlers with better keg distribution, it should be fine.
That doesn’t mean I agree with the move – I think growlers and bottles are a great way for a brewery that takes pride in its beer to impact the most number of beer lovers. Without bottles, you are forcing people to come to you, which is not possible for a lot of people, and just plain dangerous for those that drive out to Apline to have a few beers, then try to drive back to SD.
Adam: Oh, that does make sense, but still, there is a higher level of reassurance if this is a regular thing like a beer club that you trust, or trading with a friend whose habits with regards to storage etc. you are familiar with.
Either way, it seems the brewer in question here has pissed off a select few, but made his brewery a more attractive destination. Just like RR do with PTY, or other draught only beers do for their locations.
Bravo to Alpine! To all the scumbags who are outraged because they can no longer rip people off while acting as middlemen, take a second to consider how your actions affect others. Merely repeating the phrase “Free market” shows your ignorance. Of all markets in the U.S., alcohol is one of the most regulated, and you are classless dirtbags when you take advantage of a brewer’s attempt to make a product available to his main supporters at low cost and use this to make money for yourselves.
Draught only is a great way of recognizing those that support you the most.
Ironic that most of the bottles for sale on Ebay are being shipped from San Diego. He managed to ostracize the entire LA beer drinkers market and basically piss all over those of us that drove down 2 hours, then waited in line for 2 more hours to buy our bottles of Expo. I love the beer and hope it remains available. But he should have seriously considered his audience before dismissing the very people that have helped pay for his upcoming expansion, trip to Belgium, etc.
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The problem with this new wave of “beer geeks” (you know, the ones who scour the “top beer” lists on Beer Advocate and Ratebeer, seeking nothing but those including hoppy, citrusy, high-alcohol beers) is that they flat-out just don’t get it. They don’t. They don’t understand anything beyond what they saw in Beer Wars in regards to the industry as a whole. They are absolutely clueless of how breweries operate as a business and production facility and why certain products are produced so minimally. They are clueless of the fact that beer is a very sensitive liquid and a highly perishable product. However, they think they have everything figured out. There are maybe two or three people on this thread that actually get it, and that’s it.
So because Alpine Brewing decided to take a stand to protect the quality and integrity of their products and brands, they’re being hanged by consumers who don’t understand why that decision was made. “Yeah, they’re just trying to build up hype. If I want hoppy beers I should be able to get hoppy beers. They should just brew enough for everybody, bro! I stood in line for 7 hours for a one ounce pour of PTY, check out how big my boner is! I’m a Certified Beer Server Cicerone, you know nothing about beer.” You know, those guys. They’re ruining the industry and hindering the growth of honest, hardworking breweries (businesses). You want to know a little secret about beers such as Pliny the Younger, Exponential Hoppiness, Citra, Knuckle Sandwich, etc.? ….. sure, revenue is generated from these releases, but guess how much actual profit is made from producing these beers that these so-called “beer geeks” swear by? Practically none. The cost of production is so high, and so brewers offer these brands to distributors at practically the cost of production as to not hurt your wallet after distributor and retailer markup. These specialty releases are produced to generate brewer credibility, and also for good ol’ fashioned brewing fun. So what’s the point of putting forth the effort in producing something that you make zero profit on and that your consumers abuse (financially and physically) to where the liquid is consumed in a state that doesn’t meet your standards? There is no point. None whatsoever. As a brewer, there is no point in producing something, in which you gain nothing, with the intention of it being low-value and high-quality if your consumers are simply going to make your brands high-value and low-quality for their own personal gain.
As Bruce Hornsby says … “that’s just the way it is.”
There are reasons why Alpine is outraged, and it is completely justifiable from a quality control standpoint. As a brewer and proprietor, you must protect the integrity of your brands and ensure that your product is consumed at a point in which the liquid meets your standard. The integrity of your brands directly affects the integrity of your business. It has nothing to do with trying to create hype or anything of that nature. What you don’t want is people basing their opinion of your brands and company from consuming spoiled units of your product. That occurs when distribution and resale of your product takes place outside of your chosen distribution channel, which practices proper storage and rotation.
Entitlement has nothing to do with this. The brewer decided to make a beer. Then made the decision to sell that beer. If he, the brewer, will except $ for his beer, then you cant claim entitlement. If he decides that he doesnt like how the market handles his beer, then by all means, pull it from the market. I have no problem with someone runnign their business how they see fit, but to say someone cant do something with your product after you’ve been paid is just dumb. It would be like Exxon saying you cant sell your neighbor a gallon of gas at a $2 mark-up and you can only use our gas in your lawnmower and chainsaw. This isn’t rocket surgery people!
Oh, boo hoo. Ebay is a great tool for some of us to get beer we cannot get due to our location. I can’t tell you how many bottles of Alesmith I used to buy off if ebay; I live in Florida, it was the only way I could get it. Are people turning a profit? Sure. Is it illegal? Maybe. Keep in mind, sellers wouldn’t be making a profit if consumers weren’t willing to pay. He should be flattered that anyone wants to try his beer, ESPECIALLY buying it off of ebay.
I have a license, would anyone like to buy a bottle?
Rick: I agree wholeheartedly with your comments about people’s lack of awareness when it comes to these types of releases. And one example that should be familiar to most is in the Brewmasters episode where Dogfish had to flush a full on production batch of 120 down the drain, due to quality control issues. During the course of that episode it was made very clear how large that loss was for them. Not just in the wasted beer, but also the disappointment for their fans, distributors and everyone in between. Beers such as these hopbombs require a huge amount of resources both in terms of ingredients and manhours to reach the market, with a high risk-level during production of something going awry. With that taken into account, there is no doubt that for most breweries these are PR vehicles more than money earners, making the quality control issues even more important.
Stone Brewings beers sell on e-bay exponentially, no complaining from greg koch mind you, and they’re the fastest growing brewery on the planet. Alpine Beer wants to bitch about how the market handles their beer and cant come up with money to expand. Coincidence, i think not
$75/bottle on eBay. C’mon, who the hell pays that for ONE bottle? That’s silly.