(Chico, CA) – No, no. Nate Heck hasn’t come back to play although I have given him an open invitation.
This dose of a healthy distrust comes courtesy of New Albanian Brewing proprietor, Roger A. Baylor.
I posted up Baylor’s Twitter comment yesterday on Sierra Nevada and Asheville…
https://twitter.com/#!/newalbanian/status/146658771786141697
…and Sierra Nevada saw it. Most breweries would probably ignore it or pretend it wasn’t there but not Sierra Nevada. This is want you call honest public discourse, folks. Let’s just hope a post with over two dozen tweets embedded doesn’t break.
https://twitter.com/#!/newalbanian/status/146674346943979521
https://twitter.com/#!/newalbanian/status/146676476396318720
https://twitter.com/#!/newalbanian/status/146679259547713537
https://twitter.com/#!/kingofkentucky/status/147132100091457536
https://twitter.com/#!/newalbanian/status/147132765178048513
https://twitter.com/#!/kingofkentucky/status/147133902383886336
https://twitter.com/#!/newalbanian/status/147134647401320448
https://twitter.com/#!/RicoCPA1270/status/147139314076229632
https://twitter.com/#!/newalbanian/status/147141226771136513
https://twitter.com/#!/RicoCPA1270/status/147143734025404416
https://twitter.com/#!/RicoCPA1270/status/147143468198793216
https://twitter.com/#!/newalbanian/status/147143517066629122
https://twitter.com/#!/newalbanian/status/147143794805047296
https://twitter.com/#!/RicoCPA1270/status/147143132390227969
https://twitter.com/#!/newalbanian/status/147144041312694272
https://twitter.com/#!/newalbanian/status/147145513957998593
https://twitter.com/#!/SierraNevada/status/147368827796205568
https://twitter.com/#!/newalbanian/status/147372922397409280
https://twitter.com/#!/SierraNevada/status/147375201749966848
https://twitter.com/#!/newalbanian/status/147373164027064321
https://twitter.com/#!/SierraNevada/status/147375514158501889
https://twitter.com/#!/newalbanian/status/147375511759368193
https://twitter.com/#!/newalbanian/status/147375913124896769
https://twitter.com/#!/SierraNevada/status/147378543536521216
https://twitter.com/#!/newalbanian/status/147379184296144897
https://twitter.com/#!/newalbanian/status/147376150614781952
https://twitter.com/#!/SierraNevada/status/147378954523783168
https://twitter.com/#!/itsChefBeer/status/147379046240632832
https://twitter.com/#!/newalbanian/status/147379518372462592
https://twitter.com/#!/newalbanian/status/147379721783615489
https://twitter.com/#!/newalbanian/status/147373475168919552
https://twitter.com/#!/newalbanian/status/147380062621155328
https://twitter.com/#!/SierraNevada/status/147380155348824064
That was where it ended. Kind of refreshing to see two breweries go on like this like they are real people, right? I’d like to see more breweries (and brands) use social media in this fashion but it’s a stretch.
Key takeaway: craft breweries can publicly disagree, make up and still be friends (or at least agree to disagree).
As long as the quality doesn’t suffer, who cares? Isn’t the point of good, craft beer to create great beer, while creating new jobs for Americans?
I don’t actually see one legitimate question from New Albanian though… I mean seriously.. 12 regional breweries??? Thats like people extrapolating from legalizing gay marriage leads to legalizing interspecial marriage. 99% of beer styles are NOT under an appellation. The idea of terroir in brewing has only come up fairly recently. And colonization??? Is this the empire? Like they pointed out it took 31 years to get to this point. How is it going to explode to 12 regional breweries?
“I don’t actually see one legitimate question from New Albanian.”
Really? Look at the mountains on the Sierra label adorning this thread. What has SN been implying all these years, if not these mountains and this place have something to do with excellence. My question, then, is this: Exactly how does it remain authentic in a craft sense (appellations of origin) if brewed in NC?
It’s not legitimate to ask how for 31 years, a brewery’s identity is inextricably linked to California, but now it isn’t?
And, Sierra hasn’t yet explained (at least not in this thread) why new capacity cannot be found where they’re already located. Me thinks this suggests that when it comes to the economic development bidding war, Chico’s not prepared to ante up.
“Key takeaway: craft breweries can publicly disagree, make up and still be friends (or at least agree to disagree).”
By the way — thanks for saying this. It’s the entire point of the exchange, in my mind.
Guy from New Albanian sounds like a moron.
Deschutes Brewery in Bend OR, has been brewing under the guise of being linked to the Deschutes River for 23 years. They open up a Brew Pub brewing beer in Portland, as we all know the Willamette River goes straight through the middle of Portland. I therefore deem the Deschutes brewpub in Portland as inauthentic and not keeping true to it’s roots!
After my piece on Two Roads Brewing the other day, someone from within the industry emailed me with concern about such a project being a very bad thing for craft beer. Because contract arrangements make it easier for opportunists to jump into the industry and they sort of tear at the fabric that is craft beer…small, independent, DIY, hand-crafted, authentic, etc. Obviously, it’s about what is in the glass, too, and contracted beers can taste just as good if not better than other beers. But it’s all those other things that drive the passion that people have for what’s in the glass. If you’re on Twitter every day tweeting about beer, it’s because you feel like you’re part of the cog in the wheel.
Sierra Nevada isn’t becoming a contract brewer (well, I don’t know for sure) but authenticity of source and origin is an important issue among brewers. Probably more so than with them than with us drinkers. I ran a poll a while back where 1/3 of readers here said they didn’t think Sam Adams was “craft.” I wonder how much of that has to do with Jim Koch, or tv ads or how many barrels they produce…but I also think some of that has to do with the fact that a lot of “Boston Beer” is brewed in Ohio or Pennsylvania or wherever and that the brand has lost some authenticity in the eyes of those same people who are passionate about the craft beer movement.
There are at least two things evident here. Success leads to growth. Growth causes things to clash. It’s nature. That Stone or Dogfish Head tap takeover. How many other breweries’ beers were pulled off of the taps that night? I know that not everything I put on the website here makes everyone happy but it’s all for the greater good and I know my intent is generally above board. I don’t know Ken Grossman and Co. personally but I’m guessing their hearts are in the right place, too. At least until some hard evidence surfaces that suggests otherwise.
Honestly, good beer is good beer. I don’t care where it is brewed. Taste should be its number one identity and if its not , im unsure as to wether it deserves my patronage.
“And, Sierra hasn’t yet explained (at least not in this thread) why new capacity cannot be found where they’re already located. Me thinks this suggests that when it comes to the economic development bidding war, Chico’s not prepared to ante up.”
Roger, here goes the explanation. We make beer in Chico all the way out west in California, but we sell beer all the way out east in states like Maine and Florida. To get beer from here to there is A.) Expensive B.) detrimental to the environment from a carbon-footprint point of view.
By building a new facility somewhere east of the Mississippi River, we can alleviate both of those potential problems. In addition, Pale Ale take about two weeks to brew and two weeks to bottle condition…then add in: a truck-trip to the Eastern Standard Timezone, then X amount of time in a wholesalers warehouse, then X amount of time in transit to the store shelves. At the end of the day, we will be able to get fresher beer into consumer’s hands, and with less of an overall impact on the environment. I don’t see the downside to this.
We’ve thought long and hard about what to do when we inevitably reach capacity. Yes, our labels are tied to the Sierra Nevada Mountains…but it’s more about the ideas and the culture and the freedom of living in our community than it is about appellation. The Sierras are our inspiration, and they always will be. Our headquarters will always be right where they are here in Chico.
When we began our search for sites for a new brewery we obviously had a list of specific needs in a new facility (water quality, ease of shipping etc.) but in addition we had a long list of intangibles like good music scene, access to outdoors, quality of life…
the culture of Sierra Nevada Brewing Co. is what makes Sierra Nevada’s beers great, not the mountain range. The culture of Sierra Nevada Brewing Co. will stay in-tact no matter where the brewery is located. That, I can promise.
Respectfully,
Bill Manley
Sierra Nevada Brewing Co.
I’m certainly not the most knowledgeable person when it comes to the craft beer industry so please take my modest opinion with a grain of salt:
Mr. Baylor lost me when he started throwing the word “revolution” around. I think it’s a mistake to idealize business. Businesses don’t revolutionize. They capitalize. From what I’m seeing, at least Sierra Nevada is attempting to do so in a responsible fashion.
@Bill Thanks for the explanation. I do hope to do a side by side tasting of the Pale Ale with bottles from both Chico and the east coast outpost. Just to sate my curiosity.
Tyler: Same to ya, big guy.
Bill: Thanks for the answer. It went quite a long way toward addressing my sonewhat moronic point, which is this: I know, and everyone at Sierra Nevada knows, that when it comes to craft beer, there certainly has been a revolution. Capitalization alone didn’t do all that missionary work, did it? Your explanation of Sierra’s culture lies at the heart of the matter, which is also why it is shortsighted to say, as some do, that it does not matter who brews it as long as it’s good. Sierra matters because it DOES matter who brews it, just like it matters where our food and WalMart trinkets come from. It’s too bad that so many people reading have jumped to the conclusion that I’m bashing Sierra. Far from it. Revolutions matter, and what craft beer has done during the past 30 years is revolutionize. Infant to make sure we don’t forget what that meant, and continues to mean. Cheers.
“I intend,” not infant.
Is it not “revolutionary” then Roger to see your growth through in what amounts to both the ability to continue to grow, but do it responsibly?
I think the only issue at hand with this move by Sierra Nevada is the need for transparency in regards to the allotment of incentives ($3.75MM) and how it correlates to the $115MM in land/capital investment and what the time frame is for that. I’ve read what the rough is on the $3.75MM, but it is hard for the average Joe to see that a company is going to invest $115MM, but needs a local government to kick in $3.75MM. I am not sure that is up to Sierra to explain. I think that is up to the politicians, and the need to prove the validity of the math on their part.
In the end, I suspect this will be good for Asheville, craft brewing and Sierra. Because their track record speaks of far more integrity than manipulation.
This is the tip of the iceberg folks. Any brewery near the size or that has the aspiration to be the size of Sierra Nevada will open a location further west if they are in the east, further east if they are in the west. The laws of economics dictated this, that it also feels good for the breweries that want to have a better handle on how they use energy so be it. But at the end of the day, if the notion of the carbon footprint was wiped clean of the earth this instance, building a new site to cover half your market area is eminently logical, for a variety of reasons.
If ever in my lifetime we reach a stage in which either Boston Beer or Sierra Nevada had even a double digit percentage of the beer market alone, and the beer was still EXACTLY as it is today and people complained that they were not craft because of much they produce, that would be infantile and sad.
The under lying notion which is not being stated directly by Roger is that Sierra is out to steal market share from small brewers. So lets not beat around the bush. I am loathe to turn one of the businesses I most respect into a boogeyman because of what happened in the late 1800’s and then post prohibition in this country. I’ll start to worry about Sierra Nevada the day I hear some multi-national holding company is going to buy them. Ideally I’ll be drinking many many fresh Sierra products deep into old age before that happens while continuing to drink beer from the many dozens of other breweries I appreciate.
In short if anyone is scared about market share, don’t brew crappy beer.
I’m surprised about how many people are being dicks to Roger, especially people like Tyler. It’s one thing to have an intelligent debate, it’s another to post asinine comments that add nothing to the conversation and waste everyone’s time. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and you’re entitled to disagree, but for God’s sake don’t be such assholes.
I honestly don’t know whether or not I agree with Roger at this point, but I think that both he and Sierra have been generally cordial through all of this, and I love the fact that we can see stuff like this unfold in public right before our eyes.
I can admit biases because I know Roger, I respect what he has done for Kentuckian craft beer wise, and even thought I have to use a dictionary to ready 75% of his pieces…he is pretty intelligent (although at times, stubborn as a mule in his opinion…but for good reasons). At heart, he is a people person whose sole purpose in life is to spread the good word of local craft beer and the craft beer revolution as a whole. So as Dave says, no reason to be negative..just disagree without calling someone an a-hole.
I think Patrick hit on the giant elephant in the room on SN being seen as “taking away” from the local Asheville breweries. I also don’t know the tax breaks and who gets what million dollars, but I do know that one positive is that Sierra Nevada could put Asheville even more on the map than it already is. I mean everyone knows Sierra Nevada, but very few know of Wedge Brewing or Craggie because they are smaller local breweries. With SN coming to town, more people will venture this way and discover these local establishments. I mean, you’d be coming to Asheville to spend a weekend and one cannot spend a whole day (maybe) or two at Sierra Nevada…it opens the door for more exploration. So that’s a positive there, but I understand how the local breweries object to SN coming in as well. At first, generally no one likes the new kid at school.
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Per my interview with Anchor brewmaster Mark Carpenter, I think the following quote about the “craft” and “macro” designations goes a long way:
“We could make over a million barrels and still have the same quality of beer if you set your heart on it, so I don’t know if I like those numbers so much,” Carpenter said. “I think I would rather be known as a brewery that has stuck to tradition. You could do a million barrels and still have that same tradition.”
I have met Roger and found him to be likable and engaging but I feel his comments and concerns are a bit off here, at least on the part of SN needing to come from Chico. As Bill said in his response, the culture and the products are what make Sierra Nevada the outstanding brewery it is, not the mountain range it is located near. SN has proven to be one of, if not the most consistently quality craft brewery out there and I have no doubt they will threaten the consistency they are so well known for with any sort of expansion they embark upon, no matter of location. I could be wrong in all of this, but I feel Pale Ale or Torpedo from a can will be the same exceptional brews we are all accustomed to.
I think Ken Grossman has not and can not do wrong in my book. Geeky fanboy type statement but I’ve been drinking SN for over 25 years and still love it. It’s great to see their change and evolution in recent years to keep up and outpace advances in an industry that he and SN pretty much were the originators. I live in Atlanta. I will carefully waiting for this NC/SN beer to arrive here and hopefully i will not taste a difference other than it might be a wee bit fresher.
OK… I just want to clarify my stance here. It was insinuated that by not caring where my beer is made, I don’t care who is making it… I really dont drink any beer that is not brewed out of passion, creativity and a principle of considerate craftsmanship, this can / does exist in every state, and I refuse to acknowledge that geographic location can determine the quality or authenticity of a passionate brewer. You can argue with the brewer about that… but … water tables? Come on… anyone with a knowledge of commercial brewing or modern science should know that this isn’t a relative issue. (Edit: from my stupid phone that is really messing this up) mmade messing thingsissueIf a
should know
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